Holdens view on Luce

Luce and Holden have a weird relationship when he was in school with him it was more like a mentor and student relationship. Luce was the one who knew everything whether it was sex, literature, or school he was the intelligent person who had it together. But now Holden thinks that he was sort of Flitty but still a very intelligent guy, he goes to Columbia and he knows a lot about sex according to Holden.
At the bar Holden tries to get to know him but he is getting a little to personal with him. And Luce get's really annoyed with him. Holden brings up a flit that he see's and Luce doesn't like that and asks him when is he going to grow up. Then he asks how is sex life is going and Luce doesn't like that either and tells him to relax. Holden in some ways is trying to piss him off but yet relate to him at the same time but he keeps stepping over the line. And Luce is not really interested he is getting annoyed with him and eventually after many times of trying to connect and Luce not getting the "Quiet peaceful drink" he wants he tells holden he has to leave.
Luces significance in this book is just another way for Holden to show how he is trying to realte to someone he knows but how unsuccessful he is. He wants to relate to people but doesn't know how to so he tries to be funny but no one finds it humorous. Instead of bringing them closer and developing a friendship he instead pushes them away and ends u being lonely again.

Conforming to Marriage poem

Should I be good? Should I conform?
Should I be good? Should I conform?

The ideals of all those who have came before me
All of our family, All of our friends
Think the same way we all have to bend
The rules of the world and how THEY believe
But what about what I think? What about ME?

Should I be good? Should I conform?
White dresses, Black suits, high heels, dress shoes
Tears and smiles all feel the room
But yet I still wonder is this for me
Or should I be with the one I'm happy
Without all the rules and constrictions to bare
Just living my life with that one person to share

Should I be good? ShouldI conform?
Should I be good? Should I conform?

The perfect Quote

"The best thing, though. In that museum was that everything always stayed right where it was. Nobody'd move. You could go there a hundred thousand times, and that eskimo would still be just finished catching those two fish. Nobody'd be different. The only thing that would be different woud be you."

This quote is saying that Holden loves going to the museum because it will be the same thing everytime. The same things will be there in the same position doing the same thing they were all along. The only thing that would change is you but not you in a sense of age but your surroundings. Such as the weather or the people you go with or what you are wearing.

I think that it means that Holden likes order. He isn't comfortable with change, and when things are out of order. He has this preset plan of how things should go when, where, and how and once that get's interupted then he wants to bail and not be apart of it. Just like in the bar when he met that girl that knew his borther he wasn't expecting it so he bailed. And when Stradlater didn't like is paper he got pissed and he bailed. When the stripper didn't want to talk to him or hold a conversation he didn't want to be there anymore and he bailed. Things have to go Holdens way to the tee otherwise he doesn't want to be apart of it anymore, he can't deal with it and he needs tog et out. Which is a horrible thing to do he is going to be faced with a lot of situations that he isn't going to like as an adult and he can't just leave all of them because he will never become successful and will never fully grow up.

What does Holdens hat mean?

Holden and his hat are never far apart. He always has it on him and it never leaves his side. In many ways i think he uses it as his security blanket. Just as a kid i had this pillow that i carried around with me everywhere, no one could use my pillow, or touch it. It was my favorite thing and it went everywhere i did. That is until i grew up and no longer needed my security blanket. Holden refuses to grow up and that is why he still holds on to this hat. He wants to be a child, he admires any child he comes up against from random ones in the park to his sister and brother. Holden needs his hat in order to feel safe and secure and safe. It is his way of still being a child and seperating himself from the adult world.

Childhood and Adulthood Which one is he?

Like Holden i think that we all have problems finding that line between adulthood and childhood at this point in our life. Because we are so close to being an adult but yet we are still children. We have grown up's telling us what to do yet we have to make all these decisions so quick and in a certain matter of time. Scholarships, College, leaving home, Graduation, School, Sports, Jobs, all these things that determine our future in just one year can be so overwhelming. Sometimes we don't know how to act you can't expect us to be adults right away but their is a line. Which Holden has a hard time drawing he doesn't know what he wants out of life, out of school, out of anything. He is just making stuff up as he goes along. On the one hand he still wants to be a kid and go home to his parents, on the other hand he ran away and is staying in New York. I really don't think that Holden has a goal of whether he wants to be a child or an adult It's just more of him doing what he wants to do. Which we veiw as being childish or adult like.


Which do you think he is being more of a child or an adult?

After thinking about it more it seems like we in some way pity people who have had a close family member or friend die. We give them that crutch that says whatever you do is okay becasue you are grieving. But People dieing and people being born is all apart of life it's a continous cycle that never ends. And at some point you have to move on with your life because life does go on whether you want to be apart of it or not.
In Holdens case I started to give him that crutch becasue his brother died I deamed that as the reason he has all these problems. But at some point he needed to move on his brother died a long time ago and he should have done his grieving and gotten over it. Or maybe not gotten over it but found a better way to deal with it. Because him being a asshole to everyone, not applying himself at school and running away shouldnt be a excuse because he no longer has his brother around.
Or should we give people who have had someone close to them pass away that excuse for forever ? Should that be the reason they act one way their whole life or should they eventually move on and except what has happened? Do we give people that crutch?

Response to ch 5

In chapter 5 you get more insite about Holdens background and you kind of understand him a little bit better. I think that he took it really hard when his brother died he seemed to be a very nice kid in Holdens perspective. And I think that he really misses him and it might be the reason why Holden is not exactly normal. They never mention how he's had a break down or anything until his brother died and then his family tried to get him psychoanalyzed because he broke all the windows with his fist. Holden was affected pretty hard with his little brothers death and that might be what started to make him a little crazy.